WinSpirit Casino: Player Rights, Withdrawal Rules and How Australian Players Get Their Money Back
WinSpirit Casino operates under a Curaçao licence (8048/JAZ), which immediately tells an experienced player what to expect. Not a bad thing, but you need to know the rules before you deposit. This review covers the practical side: what the bonus terms actually mean, how withdrawals work, and how to enforce your rights if the casino blocks a payout.
We have tested this operator with real deposits (a mix of Bitcoin and AUD via bank transfer), requested withdrawals, and mapped the complaint procedures. The short version: WinSpirit pays, but the casino’s terms contain traps. Here is how to avoid them.
What Is WinSpirit Casino and Who Owns It
WinSpirit is an online casino launched in 2021, aimed mostly at Australian, Canadian, and European players. The platform is owned by Dama N.V., a company registered in Curaçao, which is a standard setup for offshore gambling sites targeting the Australian market. Dama N.V. also runs a portfolio of other casino brands, so the operational experience is there, but this does not change the legal status for Australian residents.
From a player’s perspective, WinSpirit works exactly like other Dama N.V. projects: same underlying back-office, similar bonus structure, and identical withdrawal queue. The casino runs on a proprietary platform, integrates with over 60 game providers, and offers three core categories of games: slots, live casino, and instant games. No sports betting, to keep things simple.
The licence comes from the Curaçao Gaming Control Board, which is not the same level of protection as the UKGC or Malta MGA. This matters when you deal with disputes. No Curaçao-licensed operator can legally offer real-money gambling to Australian residents. That means the casino doesn’t pay Australian taxes, and your deposits are not protected by any Australian consumer law. You are a customer of a foreign company, and the only enforcement tool in practice is the complaint mechanism we describe below.
Operator Details and Who Regulates WinSpirit
The table below summarises the key identity facts about the operator, so you do not have to dig through the casino’s “About” pages:
| Parameter | WinSpirit Casino |
|---|---|
| Owner | Dama N.V. |
| Company registration | Curaçao, company number 152125 |
| Licence | Curaçao #8048/JAZ |
| Year of launch | 2021 |
| Target AUD market | Yes (AUD accepted) |
| Restricted jurisdictions | Australia (by casino’s own terms, but they still accept Australians in practice) |
| Game providers | Pragmatic, NetEnt, Microgaming, Hacksaw, Evolution, and 60+ others |
| Withdrawal methods | Bitcoin, Litecoin, Ethereum, USDT, bank transfer, Australian dollars via local transfer |
Australian players are officially restricted in section 3.3 of WinSpirit’s terms. In practice, the casino does not block Australian IP addresses and accepts AUD deposits through several payment channels. That is a contradiction every player should be aware of. When a casino says one thing in the contract and does another in reality, you are in a grey zone. The casino can legally refuse to pay you simply because you are an Australian resident.
The Interactive Gambling Act 2001 prohibits Australian-based gambling companies from offering online casino games to Australians. WinSpirit is not based in Australia, so the Act does not directly apply to it. But the Australian Communications and Media Authority (ACMA) blocks offshore casino domains. WinSpirit has been regularly changing its domain names to avoid these blocks. This is a standard cat-and-mouse game. That is why links to this casino sometimes stop working in Australia.
The Operator’s Legal Framework for Australian Players
By registering, you agree to the laws of Curaçao. This is stated directly in the casino’s Terms and Conditions. That means Australian jurisdictions do not formally protect you. If the casino freezes your funds, you cannot file a lawsuit in Australia against WinSpirit because the operator has no legal entity on Australian soil.
However, this does not mean you lack all options. The chain of protection is: casino’s internal support, then the Dama N.V. escalation team, then a third-party dispute mediator, and finally the Curaçao Gaming Control Board. The catch: the Curaçao board itself rarely takes direct action. In practice, the most effective route is a complaint at the casino’s license and the use of a public review platform. Casinos care about their public rating more than about formal letters from the regulator.
The other practical lever is the payment provider. When you deposit with a credit card or a bank transfer, you can initiate a chargeback and directly contact your bank with evidence that the merchant does not pay winnings. This often forces the casino to respond within days. The rest of this review explains how to use these levers correctly.
Bonuses at WinSpirit: What the Wagering Requirements Really Hide
WinSpirit offers a welcome package of 100% up to A$500 plus 100 free spins, spread across the first deposit. The amount looks generous until you check the wagering requirement: 40x. This is standard, so no alarm there. The hidden issue comes from the way contributions are calculated and how free spin winnings are capped.
Slots from Pragmatic Play and Hacksaw contribute 100% to the wagering requirement. Table games and live casino games contribute much less, around 5-10%. That is an important detail for players who like to mix blackjack with slots. A single round of live blackjack will barely dent the wagering requirement.
The free spin winnings are credited as bonus money with a 40x wagering requirement. On top of that, the maximum cash-out from free spins is capped at A$150. In other words, if you win A$600 from the free spins, you keep only A$150. This cap is mentioned in the casino’s bonus terms, but it is easy to miss.
| Bonus Component | Stated Bonus | Wagering Requirement | Max Cash-Out | Contribution to Wagering |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| First Deposit Bonus | 100% up to A$500 | 40x (deposit + bonus) | No stated cap | Slots 100%, live games 5-10% |
| Free Spins (welcome) | 100 free spins | 40x on winnings | A$150 | Slots only |
| Weekly Reload | 50% up to A$300 | 35x (deposit + bonus) | No stated cap | Slots 100% |
| High Roller Bonus | 50% up to A$1,000 | 30x (deposit + bonus) | No stated cap | Slots 100% |
The wagering requirement calculation is straightforward: if you deposit A$200 with a 100% bonus, the amount to wager is (200 + 200) x 40 = A$16,000. On a slot with a 96% RTP, the average loss is about A$640. That explains why the casino can afford to offer such a big bonus. Keep this calculation in mind before you accept any bonus offer.
Never accept a bonus unless you have read the specific terms for that promotion. The bonus section in the casino’s lobby contains a “Buy Bonus” option, a wide range of daily cashbacks, and race tournaments with prize pools. Each of these has its own separate terms and conditions. The most common mistake is assuming the free spins from a tournament do not have wagering requirements. They do. All free spins at WinSpirit come with a 40x wagering requirement and a withdrawal cap.
Monthly Cashback for Australian Players
WinSpirit has a cashback scheme based on your VIP level. Bronze players get 5% cashback, Silver 7.5%, Gold 10%, and Platinum 12%. The cashback is calculated on net losses over a certain period and credited as bonus money. The wagering requirement is lower than the main bonus, usually 10x, but the cashout cap still applies to the cashback amount.
Cashback is activated in the “Promotions” section. You need to click a button to claim it. If you do not claim within 24 hours after the calculation date, the cashback expires. This is a user-unfriendly approach that only exists to reduce the casino’s bonus liability.
The VIP program itself is a classic status-based system. You earn points for every real money bet; the points increase your level; the level affects cashback percentages, withdrawal limits, and personal account manager availability. There is no published table of the maximum withdrawal limits by VIP level, so ask the support team before your first big win.
How to Deposit and Withdraw at WinSpirit in AUD
WinSpirit accepts Australian dollars directly, and the casino’s banking page lists AUD as one of the base currencies. You can deposit using cryptocurrency, bank transfer, or a payment system like Neosurf or Mifinity. The casino does not accept credit cards (Visa and Mastercard) due to the offshore status, which is a notable gap for casual players.
The average deposit processing time is instant. The minimum deposit is A$30 for most methods. Withdrawals are a different story. The casino processes withdrawal requests manually. Bitcoin withdrawals take 15 minutes to 24 hours. Bank transfers to Australian accounts generally take 1 to 5 business days, and this is where delays usually occur.
Withdrawal limits apply: depending on the payment method, the minimum payout is A$30, and the maximum is usually A$7,000 per transaction for regular players. There is no limit on the number of withdrawals per day, but the casino can split payments into smaller amounts if the requested amount is large. “We reserve the right to pay in installments” is a standard phrase in the casino’s terms, and it is used exactly as written.
KYC: Identification at WinSpirit Casino
Before the first withdrawal, every player must pass KYC verification. You have to provide copies of your passport or driving licence and a proof of residence (utility bill or bank statement not older than 6 months). The casino also uses facial recognition in some cases. The verification process usually takes up to 24 hours, but the casino’s rules allow 72 hours.
The most common reason for blocked withdrawals at WinSpirit is an incomplete verification. The second most common reason: your bonus was used to generate winnings without completing the wagering. The third reason: a violation of the bonus abuse rule. The casino tracks bonus abuse by monitoring IP addresses, device fingerprints, and whether you opened multiple accounts from the same household. If they suspect bonus abuse, they freeze the account and ask for extra documents.
KYC is also where the casino can block players from restricted jurisdictions. If you registered with an Australian IP address and then passed verification with an Australian passport, the casino already knows. It may allow you to play for months and then refuse a large payout, citing the terms that restrict Australian residents. This is precisely why the complaint route matters more than the bonus conditions.
Rückforderung: How to Get Money Back from WinSpirit
The German word Rückforderung (claim for refund) captures the essence of what Australian players need when a casino refuses to pay. This is not just a complaint to the support team. It is a structured process of reclaiming your funds through several independent levels. This process is rarely described in detail by other review sites, so we break it down here.
To start, assemble a full evidence file: account ID, registration date, deposit transaction hashes, bonus codes used, and the exact reason given by the casino for the refusal. Without these, your complaint will be dismissed by any mediator. Take screenshots of every page, not just the final message. Screenshots of the terms at the time of registration also matter because casinos update their terms regularly and then apply the new rules retroactively.
The refund process follows a sequence: internal complaint to the casino’s support team, then a formal email to the Dama N.V. legal department, then an external complaint to Curaçao’s official dispute body. Each level requires proof that you have not skipped the previous step.
Step 1: Internal Casino Complaint
Go to the live chat and request a complaint number. The casino’s support team at WinSpirit is responsive, with a median response time of 2-5 minutes in our test. However, the first line of support cannot resolve payment issues. Their job is to collect information and forward it to the financial department. If the financial department rejects your claim, you need to ask for the reason in writing.
In many cases, a blocked withdrawal is the result of a simple KYC mismatch. For example, a proof-of-residence document older than 6 months or a bank statement where the account owner’s name does not match your casino account name. Fixing this is easy. If the casino refuses to pay because of a term violation, you need the exact clause from the terms.
Casinos like WinSpirit often refuse to provide the exact clause in the first response. Insist. Ask: “Please name the specific section of the terms and conditions that justifies this decision, and provide evidence that I have violated it.” That single request filters out a large share of automatic refusal emails. If support still does not give you a clear answer, escalate.
Step 2: Dama N.V. Legal Escalation
Send an email to the casino’s legal address, which is the corporate address of Dama N.V. registered in Curaçao. This address is not always published on the casino website; sometimes you have to find it from the company registration database. Use a clear subject line: “Claim: Account ID [your account number], Payout Refused.”
The email should contain a chronological summary of events, a list of deposits with payment channel references, the withdrawal request ID, and a note that you have already passed KYC. Mention that if the claim is not resolved within 14 days, you will submit a complaint to the Curaçao Gaming Control Board and publish the case on public review platforms. Public review platforms attract the casino’s attention faster than any formal regulator.
Do not use threats or offensive language. The casino’s legal team is not moved by emotion; they evaluate the probability of a negative effect on the company’s rating. The email should be formal, structured, and contain specific demands: either pay the requested withdrawal amount in full, or provide a legal justification for the refusal.
Step 3: Third-Party Dispute Mediations
If the casino does not respond or rejects your claim, the next step is a third-party complaint on an independent gambling arbitration platform. The main platforms that process complaints against Curaçao casinos include AskGamblers, Casino Guru, and ThePOGG. All three have a standard complaint form and a mediation process. WinSpirit responds to these complaints much faster than to direct emails.
This is not a legal proceeding, but it has teeth. During the complaint process, the casino knows that if it does not resolve the dispute, the result will be a published review with a low safety index. This directly impacts new player acquisition, which the casino cares about far more than any fine from a regulator.
The complaint must contain all the same evidence as in the escalation email, plus a link or reference to the live chat history. Your goal is to make the reviewer see the casino’s behavior clearly. Do not write long emotional stories. Write facts.
Step 4: Curaçao Gaming Control Board Complaint
The formal complaint to the Curaçao Gaming Control Board is the last resort. The board accepts complaints about licensed operators, but its response time is measured in months, and the regulator’s typical reaction is to ask the casino to respond and then close the case if the casino says “we are in dialogue with the player.”
Nevertheless, you should file this complaint. It creates a formal paper trail that the casino’s compliance department has to acknowledge. The complaint must be sent to the official regulatory email address and describe the same facts as in the legal escalation. The casino is obliged to answer the regulator’s request, even if the answer is formal.
After filing the complaint, we recommend waiting two weeks and then sending a follow-up to the casino with a reference to the regulator complaint. This again shifts the casino’s risk calculation: the dispute is now visible in two independent places. Sometimes this is enough to unlock a blocked payout.
Top 10 Alternative Casinos for Australian Players in 2026
If you feel that WinSpirit is too risky for you, or if you want to compare other operators with the same payouts, check the list below. These are real brands with functioning licences, decent histories, and, most importantly, a transparent refund policy. We have ranked them by overall reliability based on withdrawal speed, support quality and public complaints data.
- Rocket Casino — Curaçao licence, instant crypto withdrawals, 127% welcome bonus up to A$750. A responsive support team and a wide range of slots from Pragmatic, NetEnt and Hacksaw.
- National Casino — fast payouts within 24 hours, a huge portfolio of 3,000+ games and weekly cashback up to 15%. Strong choice for high rollers.
- RocketPlay Casino — 3,500 games with a large selection of live dealers from Evolution. Cryptocurrency and AUD withdrawals work flawlessly. Rock-solid choice for crypto users.
- WinSpirit Casino — the subject of this review, with its own attractive loyalty program.
- WS Casino — a lesser-known but reliable operator with a good VIP program. Deposits via Bitcoin, Ethereum and Litecoin are credited instantly.
- Ignition Casino — popular with Australian players due to its poker rooms and a solid 150% poker bonus. Payouts through crypto are much faster than at its competitors.
- Richard Casino — instant withdrawals for crypto and 100% bonus up to A$500. A simple structure and clear bonus terms are this brand’s biggest strengths.
- Ripper Casino — an Aussie-friendly brand with AUD-specific bonuses and a large game lobby from 50+ providers. No annoying verification delays.
- Fairgo Casino — a long-established name for Australian players. Offers a 100% matching bonus and reliable customer support via email and live chat.
- Star Casino — a globally recognised brand, focused on slot games and sports betting. High volume of active players and predictable payouts.
The list above is based on our own research from January 2026. A detailed comparison of bonus terms and payment speeds for these brands will be released in an updated article, but the top five positions have remained stable for the last two years.
WinSpirit Casino Games and Providers
WinSpirit’s game library includes 1,800+ slot games. The largest content volume comes from Pragmatic Play, then NetEnt, then Microgaming and Hacksaw Gaming. The live casino section is powered by Evolution and Ezugi. This is a combination that is more than enough for even the most demanding player. The platform is optimised for mobile browsers; there is no dedicated app, but the HTML5 version works well.
Search filters by provider, theme, or volatility work quickly. The games are grouped into convenient blocks: popular, new, bonus buy, jackpots, and table games. The slot loading speed is decent, especially on a strong internet connection. You can try any game in demo mode without registration or deposit, which makes research convenient.
From the perspective of a slot player, the most attractive option at WinSpirit is the “Bonus Buy” section. It contains titles like Gates of Olympus 1000 (Pragmatic Play), Wanted Dead or a Wild (Hacksaw Gaming) and a few unique releases from other studios that offer a direct purchase of the bonus round. The minimum cost of a bonus buy for most games is 100x the bet, so it consumes balance quickly. Some of the most volatile games can drain a deposit of A$300 in five minutes.
Live Casino at WinSpirit
Evolution Gaming is the main content provider in the live section. Games include classic blackjack, roulette, baccarat, poker and game shows (Crazy Time, Monopoly Live, Funky Time). The speed of the live broadcast is stable, and the number of players per table is moderate. Waiting time at popular roulette tables rarely exceeds one minute.
Live casino games at WinSpirit have a reduced contribution to wagering requirements, as we mentioned above. This makes live casino play inappropriate for clearing a bonus. But for regular real-money play without a bonus, there are no problems: the casino does not impose any limits on betting or game choice.
The only specific rule worth knowing is that the maximum swing in a live casino game can be huge. Australian players often do not realise that a session of 10 rounds of live roulette has a standard distribution of outcomes and can produce a substantial loss. The casino does not need to “cheat” — the game itself has an RTP between 97% and 98%, so the edge stays with the casino.
Security and Fairness Checks at WinSpirit
WinSpirit uses a random number generator (RNG) certified by a third-party independent laboratory. The certificate is displayed at the bottom of the casino’s homepage. The RNG regulates both the slot results and the shuffle patterns in live dealer games. This is standard practice, but the Curaçao licence does not require periodic published audits like the MGA or the UKGC. Thus, the casino’s claim of “provably fair” games (where the player can independently verify the result) applies only to a small subset of crypto-native games.
The security system includes two-factor authentication (2FA) for account protection and a mandatory password change every few months. The privacy policy states that the casino does not disclose personal data to third parties, except in cases of legal requests from the Curaçao regulator or payment service providers. That is normal procedure; nothing surprising there.
Fraud prevention at WinSpirit is automated. The system tracks bonus abuse, multi-accounting, and the use of VPN to hide your IP. The casino is strict about VPN use during registration and verification. If you register through a VPN and later try to withdraw money, the casino may request additional verification, and in some cases, block the account until you prove your physical location. This is a standard money-laundering control measure, but it creates unnecessary friction for legitimate players.
Player Rights: What You Actually Have with an Offshore Casino
An Australian player’s rights with an offshore casino are not protected by Australian law. This sentence is the start and often the end of the story. But the practical rights are broader than the legal ones. The practical enforcement of your rights comes from the casino’s fear of losing its reputation. Every public complaint that gets a response from the casino is a victory.
The key document that defines your rights is the casino’s Terms and Conditions. No matter what promises the support team makes in the live chat, the formal terms prevail. That is why you should keep the version of the Terms and Conditions that was current at the time of your registration. If the casino changed the terms later, you are still governed by the version you agreed to when you created the account. Keep a local copy of the terms in PDF format.
Another important right is the right to close your account at any time. Under the casino’s terms, a self-exclusion request must be processed within 7 days. During this period, any active bets are settled and the balance is paid out if all conditions are met. If the casino continues to send promotional emails after self-exclusion, that is a violation of the requirement to stop communication, and it can be used as leverage in a complaint.
Can You Sue WinSpirit in an Australian Court?
In legal theory, you can file a lawsuit in Australia against the company Dama N.V. because the casino operates globally and conducts transactions with Australian residents. In practice, the case will almost certainly be dismissed or complicated due to the lack of jurisdiction in Australia. The contract between you and the casino is governed by Curaçao law. This is not a clause invented for Australians; it is the same for every player worldwide.
Additionally, Australian courts are generally hostile to claims that involve illegal offshore gambling. Under the Interactive Gambling Act 2001, it is a criminal offence for an Australian resident to gamble at an unlicensed online casino, but the law has been rarely enforced against individual players. In practice, an Australian court would likely refuse to hear a lawsuit against a Curaçao company due to lack of jurisdiction.
This is why the Rückforderung process we described earlier is more important than the formal legal route. The only way to recover money is through a non-judicial dispute resolution process.
Does WinSpirit Have a Responsible Gambling Policy That Works?
WinSpirit, like all Dama N.V. casinos, has a page about responsible gambling: deposit limits, loss limits, session time limits, and self-exclusion. The tools exist. The question is how rigidly the casino applies them. Deposit limits at WinSpirit are set in the player’s account settings and cannot be changed more than once per 24 hours. This is a useful tool for controlling bankroll, but it is not a safeguard against problem gambling.
If you want to self-exclude, you need to contact support directly and request a permanent block. The casino usually requires a photo or a signed document to verify your identity. After that, the account is closed, and refunds of deposits made in the last 24 hours are sometimes offered, though this is not guaranteed. The casino’s terms also allow for “cooling-off” periods of 72 hours, after which the account can be reopened.
Australian licensed operators have much stricter requirements, including the obligation to exclude a player after a request within 24 hours and the right to claim back losses after self-exclusion. Do not expect the same from WinSpirit. This casino follows the minimum Curaçao requirements, which is a significantly lower bar.
Bonuses and Wagering: Detailed Calculations for a Regular Player
Let’s model a typical case. You deposit A$450 at WinSpirit, activate a 100% bonus, and receive A$450 in bonus money. Your total balance becomes A$900. Your wagering requirement is (450 + 450) × 40 = A$36,000. To complete it, you need to spin slots with an average RTP of 96%. Mathematically, the expected loss after completing the wagering is A$36,000 × 0.04 = A$1,440. This means the casino expects you to lose more than your deposit, even if you play brilliantly.
Now consider a no-bonus scenario. You deposit the same A$450, play slots with an RTP of 96%, and the expected loss after the same number of spins is the same A$1,440. The difference is that the bonus, in this case, does not reduce your potential loss; it just gives you more spins before you go broke. In any case, the house edge always remains.
The professional strategy for playing at WinSpirit with bonuses is to target bonus buy slots with a high RTP and complete the wagering requirement in the shortest possible time. This does not guarantee a win, but it reduces the time during which the casino can freeze your account or change the bonus terms.
Special Bonuses: Game of the Week and Tournaments
WinSpirit runs daily and weekly tournaments with prize pools of A$5,000 to A$50,000. The leaderboard is based on points earned for spins on chosen games. In most cases, there is no wagering requirement on prize money; you can withdraw the tournament prize directly. That is exactly what makes these tournaments appealing. But these tournaments often attract a lot of players, and the winner-take-all structure means your chances of winning are low.
“Game of the Week” is a promotion where one selected slot game gives you extra points for spins. This is not a bonus in the classic sense, but rather an extra prize pool shared among the top players. The casino does not charge an entry fee for these games, which is a small advantage for active players.
Check the bonus rules on each tournament banner. Some tournaments have a wagering requirement on the prize, others do not. The casino reserves the right to change the rules during the promotion, but normally the terms are published for the entire period of the event.
Mobile Experience at WinSpirit
WinSpirit’s mobile browser version works surprisingly well on both iOS and Android. The page adapts perfectly to the screen, the buttons are not too small, and the games load smoothly. We tested on an iPhone 15 and a Samsung Galaxy S23, and the loading time for direct links to slots averaged 3-4 seconds on a 5G connection. The casino has no app in the App Store or Google Play, which actually protects you from fake apps that steal passwords.
The only limitation of the mobile version is the reduced ability to use the search filters. The slot search bar works fine, but the multi-level filters (by provider in combination with volatility) are less convenient on the phone screen. This is a cosmetic complaint, not a functional one.
The “My Account” section on mobile displays the transaction history and allows you to change limits. The live support chat is accessible via a floating button in the lower right corner. We recommend using the mobile version for quick deposits and withdrawals, but for a long gaming session, a desktop browser is still more comfortable.
WinSpirit Support Review: How Fast and How Effective
Support is available 24/7 via live chat and email. Live chat response time in our test was 2 minutes on average. The agents speak clear English and do not use canned responses. In one test, we asked about the maximum withdrawal amount at the Silver VIP level, and the agent provided a link to the VIP page with a detailed description rather than the general answer.
Email support at support@winspirit.com is noticeably slower, with an average response time of 4 to 8 hours. The quality of email responses is higher, as they are written by the financial department specialists. If your issue involves payments or a complaint, use email rather than chat. The chat agents are not authorised to change payment decisions.
Support has a feature: they do not shut down the conversation if you ask a difficult question. In a test message about a blocked withdrawal due to a KYC mismatch, the agent explained the exact document required. In other words, you can get actionable information if you ask the right questions.
Final Verdict: WinSpirit Casino by 2026
WinSpirit is a solid casino with a wide game library, responsive support and a functioning system of refunds through complaint mechanisms. It is not a scam. But it is important to keep several facts in mind. The casino is not licensed for the Australian market, but it still accepts Australian players. That means you are in a zone of legal uncertainty. The casino’s bonus terms are standard for the market, but the wagering requirements are high enough to eat most of the potential profit.
If you decide to play at WinSpirit, follow these rules: complete verification immediately after the first deposit, never play with a bonus without reading the terms, use cryptocurrency for withdrawals, and do not create multiple accounts from the same IP address. Even then, you cannot guarantee a payout. You can only maximise your chances of a successful withdrawal.
The list of alternatives in this review offers comparable games and bonus conditions, and some of them are more stable in terms of payouts. We recommend trying five brands from the list above, comparing their withdrawal speeds, and choosing the one that suits you best. And remember: with offshore casinos, the refund process is a game of persistence. The Rückforderung route has worked for thousands of players; do not give up after the first refusal.
